Comparison of Autox results in AS, ESP and SM

[wojo]

Hey guys,
I did some quick analysis of my resulst in AS this year and compared them to hypothetical results in ESP and SM.

Here is my post:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54614

[FT]

Your time differences reduced significantly as the season went along and as you got used to the Evo. If you put R-compounds, that would have you run about 1.5 to 2 seconds faster in a similar situation. A proper chassis setup would also easily give you 1.5 to 2 seconds. So, imagine running 3 to 4 seconds faster from the previous year's results.

Reality 1: if you make modifications, the car will nearly feel like a new car and it will take you sometime to get used to.

Reality 2: I don't think you can run AS any longer with your down pipe :) unless you remove it. So, the question is can you spend the money to be competitive in SM? SM will be much more competitive that this year with several Evos in it as well as STis, M3s etc. If you can spend the money to upgrade the engine, transmission and chassis AND remove 300 to 400 lbs weight off your daily driver ;) then you might be competitive at the local level. At Nationals we just need more seat time.

If you have to have a "compromise" vehicle, then go with SP (it looks like it will be ESP btw) and you would be seriously competitive at local level and probably play for the top 3 to 7 at nationals.

[wojo]

Good points FT. I am still not quite sure what I am going to do. The SP rules are somewhat limiting my future mods (cams, BC), so I need to do more thinking.

Lets talk about the coilovers, when you get a chance

[Remorseless1]

Tell me about coilovers also.

[FT]

Tell me about coilovers also.
It is a quite broad subject, is there a specific thing you would like to know?

Some guidance: the first thing you really want to determine is what do you want to accomplish with the chassis. Do you want to lower it for a better visual apparence, want to have the capability to fine tune the chassis for various sporting events, or you feel the chassis is lacking in some manner and not well suited for your driving style? These are all valid objectives, and each would require slightly different approaches to choosing springs/coilovers. Once you determine this, then I can provide you some choices in features, and then you can think about brand name :)

I am available via e-mail or phone (301-996-6034). Or we can talk in one of our meetings, as soon as I make it to one of them :D

Wojo I know your objectives and desires. I have a good idea on what you need, but I also need to ask couple of more questions before I can finalize a suggestion to you. You of course know how to reach me :) Also, one more note to my previous message: a well setup chassis will hide less of driver erros; it will reward proper technique and significantly penalize poor driving. So, either you go with SP or SM (I am going SP) we both will have to work more on our driving techniques to better take advantage of the tools we will have ;)

[Dr Evo]

a well setup chassis will hide less of driver erros; it will reward proper technique and significantly penalize poor driving. So, either you go with SP or SM (I am going SP) we both will have to work more on our driving techniques to better take advantage of the tools we will have ;)

I was talking to Keefe dis morning about the fact that our cars r performance cars and sometimes I feel like its "performing" subpar compared to less performance cars ... and I couldnt explain it well. But FT this quote u said is exactly wat i was thinking. AND it seems that I am under SEVERE penalty. :mad: Sorrta like a "double edged sword, so if you suck, you will REALLY suck, if you are good, you will be REALLY good with a better car.." as keefe said. I didnt know I sucked until I got a real performance car, but now I REALLY suck. Back to da drawing board.

[FT]

I was talking to Keefe dis morning about the fact that our cars r performance cars and sometimes I feel like its "performing" subpar compared to less performance cars ... and I couldnt explain it well. But FT this quote u said is exactly wat i was thinking. AND it seems that I am under SEVERE penalty. :mad: Sorrta like a "double edged sword, so if you suck, you will REALLY suck, if you are good, you will be REALLY good with a better car.." as keefe said. I didnt know I sucked until I got a real performance car, but now I REALLY suck. Back to da drawing board.
LOL. This is certainly one way to put it :) I had been thinking that I would be the next rally champion (local or European) in my early 20s when I was into rallies with my own car. I was not bad with the car in stock form, then slowly (through a period of 2 years), I built up the car. I had assumed that since I had a better tool, I was also a better driver... Until a big accident that was 100% my fault of being naive. I quit racing as fear took over pretty much everything and I did not have any more money to build another car. However, I did not learn that the accident was actually my fault years after while I was talking to a professional rally driver.

Any how, I know now that I cannot be a racer as that fear is still in me, and that is why I am focusing on the engineering and desing part rather than pure out driving.

However, if you don't have the fear (most people thankfully don't), it is easy to become a mediocre driver relative to local and national auto-x champions or let's say club racers/instructors. Couple of Evo Perf. Driving schools, few HPDEs in different tracks, and litterally: BOOM. You are significantly better than you used to be. The difficult part is figuring out and having the courage to go for the last 10-15% of your and car's performance.

I am making a long story out of this, but... when Keefe had his incident at VIR, I had a lot of flashbacks; and I was ready to head home. After thinking about it with a clear head though, I decided to do one more session on Sunday just to beat my own fear. And I was going as hard as I could, and it turned out to be my best session.

Coming back to suspension improvements... the better the car, the more it takes to make the most out of it; and mistakes are amplified. However, it is easier to see where a driver has to improve as well. So, I do not 100% agree that a rookie should start with stock cars and build up from there. As with everthing, there are two sides to that story. Look at Chris... he did excellent in his highly modified Evo in his second auto-x. I think that shows pure talent, he just needs to nurture and massage it a little, and I am sure he'll pass me my mid-season in 2004 :)

[RichJ]

I hope you decide to run SM. The more the merrier. I'm just keeping my Evo for street duty right now, but I'll be back in SM next year in the D.C. region with my 95 Z28. Changes for me next year will be more consistent attendance, fresh 315 R tires on 17x11s at all 4 corners (vs. the 3-year old 255s on 16s that I ran last year), a fresh alignment and a long overdue wideband tune when I get my LM-1 sensor on the EIP VWvortex GP (ends 12/31/03, price of $305 shipped!). The more people we have in SM the more trophy spots there will be and the more legitimate the class becomes on the national scene.